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	<title>Comments for Chicago News Cooperative</title>
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	<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org</link>
	<description>A nonprofit news organization dedicated to producing high-quality journalism in the public interest</description>
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		<title>Comment on Now at Northwestern, Ethics 101, Taught by, Well, Go Figure by Thomas Westgard</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/now-at-northwestern-ethics-101-taught-by-well-go-figure/comment-page-1/#comment-1837</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Westgard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1406#comment-1837</guid>
		<description>Maddy E has some great questions. Speaking of irony, there&#039;s the accusation that You Kids Today are bad, when it&#039;s the Baby Boomers who have squandered the legacy of the Greatest Generation and - irony of ironies - taught those &quot;bad kids&quot; whatever it is they learned. People don&#039;t invent much; most of who we are we learned from our parents and their cohorts. James Warren is no different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maddy E has some great questions. Speaking of irony, there&#8217;s the accusation that You Kids Today are bad, when it&#8217;s the Baby Boomers who have squandered the legacy of the Greatest Generation and &#8211; irony of ironies &#8211; taught those &#8220;bad kids&#8221; whatever it is they learned. People don&#8217;t invent much; most of who we are we learned from our parents and their cohorts. James Warren is no different.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Tough Choices for Higher Education by Michael McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/making-tough-choices-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1813</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael McIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1558#comment-1813</guid>
		<description>This is a good gig, ain&#039;t it Jim?  Tell everyone you&#039;re writing a story, then stop halfway through to editorialize!  But next time you might want to learn something first.  Slam the graduation rates at Chicago State (rightly) all you want, but you might want to take a look at the graduation rates at for-profit universities while you&#039;re at it, especially if you&#039;re holding them up as the can-do path to the future of higher education.  And as for accountability - there&#039;s not a university in the country that hasn&#039;t climbed aboard this train, if only because states and accrediting agencies require it.  But you know what?  There&#039;s no evidence that the &quot;customers&quot; for higher education give a rat&#039;s ass about the voluminous &quot;assessment&quot; data available about higher ed.  If we&#039;re going to use business criteria to evaluate higher ed, then this &quot;assessment&quot; or &quot;accountability&quot; data doesn&#039;t mean a thing.  Businesses are judged by their ability to get people to pay for their products.  By that measure, higher ed is in great shape - far better than most American businesses.  (What other sector of the economy runs such a large trade surplus, for example).  

Here&#039;s the real landscape, Jim.  There are huge incentive compatibility problems in higher ed, but they&#039;re not the ones you talk about here.  Leaving aside top tier universities, where the students come in well-prepared and resources are plentiful, higher ed has to pick up where the K-12 system leaves off, and often fails.  Many, many students (the vast majority at some places) come in unable to write a coherent essay or do algebra.  Making up those deficits and graduating with a college degree that honestly certifies an advanced level of education would require years of hard mental labor.  But do students do that kind of work in college.  Absolutely not.  The National Survey of Student Engagement consistently reports that full-time students do about twelve hours per week of work on academics, not including time spent in class.  With time in class (12 or 15 hours a week, depending on the institution), that&#039;s an average of 24-27 hours per week on schoolwork.  Not enough.  Not close to enough, given the accumulated K-12 deficit.

Why don&#039;t the institutions demand better work of their students?  Serious incentive incompatibilities.  Student evaluations now form a major part of tenure and promotion files at non-research universities.  Most professors are convinced that heavy workloads and low grades are the route to poor evaluations (though the evidence supports only the correlation between low grades and low evaluations).  For higher ed teachers on term contracts (some 2/3 of college teachers, responsible for roughly half of the courses being taught), bad evaluations can lead to an immediate contract termination.  So the incentives are to demand little of one&#039;s students.

There are ways to turn this around, by the way.  I direct a program where we&#039;ve been collecting data on student effort for the past decade, and we push our students hard.  Sixty percent of the students in my program&#039;s courses meet or exceed the norm of two hours of work outside of the classroom for every hour spent inside the classroom.  Getting my colleagues on board was easy, and the students in my program take pride in working harder than their peers.  The people who really don&#039;t like me are other chairs and directors, who take offense when I point out that most of our students aren&#039;t working hard enough (and, by implication, that their programs aren&#039;t making students work hard enough).

If you want to have a serious conversation and learn something, let&#039;s talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good gig, ain&#8217;t it Jim?  Tell everyone you&#8217;re writing a story, then stop halfway through to editorialize!  But next time you might want to learn something first.  Slam the graduation rates at Chicago State (rightly) all you want, but you might want to take a look at the graduation rates at for-profit universities while you&#8217;re at it, especially if you&#8217;re holding them up as the can-do path to the future of higher education.  And as for accountability &#8211; there&#8217;s not a university in the country that hasn&#8217;t climbed aboard this train, if only because states and accrediting agencies require it.  But you know what?  There&#8217;s no evidence that the &#8220;customers&#8221; for higher education give a rat&#8217;s ass about the voluminous &#8220;assessment&#8221; data available about higher ed.  If we&#8217;re going to use business criteria to evaluate higher ed, then this &#8220;assessment&#8221; or &#8220;accountability&#8221; data doesn&#8217;t mean a thing.  Businesses are judged by their ability to get people to pay for their products.  By that measure, higher ed is in great shape &#8211; far better than most American businesses.  (What other sector of the economy runs such a large trade surplus, for example).  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the real landscape, Jim.  There are huge incentive compatibility problems in higher ed, but they&#8217;re not the ones you talk about here.  Leaving aside top tier universities, where the students come in well-prepared and resources are plentiful, higher ed has to pick up where the K-12 system leaves off, and often fails.  Many, many students (the vast majority at some places) come in unable to write a coherent essay or do algebra.  Making up those deficits and graduating with a college degree that honestly certifies an advanced level of education would require years of hard mental labor.  But do students do that kind of work in college.  Absolutely not.  The National Survey of Student Engagement consistently reports that full-time students do about twelve hours per week of work on academics, not including time spent in class.  With time in class (12 or 15 hours a week, depending on the institution), that&#8217;s an average of 24-27 hours per week on schoolwork.  Not enough.  Not close to enough, given the accumulated K-12 deficit.</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t the institutions demand better work of their students?  Serious incentive incompatibilities.  Student evaluations now form a major part of tenure and promotion files at non-research universities.  Most professors are convinced that heavy workloads and low grades are the route to poor evaluations (though the evidence supports only the correlation between low grades and low evaluations).  For higher ed teachers on term contracts (some 2/3 of college teachers, responsible for roughly half of the courses being taught), bad evaluations can lead to an immediate contract termination.  So the incentives are to demand little of one&#8217;s students.</p>
<p>There are ways to turn this around, by the way.  I direct a program where we&#8217;ve been collecting data on student effort for the past decade, and we push our students hard.  Sixty percent of the students in my program&#8217;s courses meet or exceed the norm of two hours of work outside of the classroom for every hour spent inside the classroom.  Getting my colleagues on board was easy, and the students in my program take pride in working harder than their peers.  The people who really don&#8217;t like me are other chairs and directors, who take offense when I point out that most of our students aren&#8217;t working hard enough (and, by implication, that their programs aren&#8217;t making students work hard enough).</p>
<p>If you want to have a serious conversation and learn something, let&#8217;s talk.</p>
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		<title>Comment on STREET CORNERS: RON’S BARBER SHOP – A Place Where Open and Honest Discussions Are in Style by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/street-corners-ron%e2%80%99s-barber-shop-%e2%80%93-a-place-where-open-and-honest-discussions-are-in-style/comment-page-1/#comment-1746</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 02:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1546#comment-1746</guid>
		<description>It has been fixed. Thank you for pointing out the mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been fixed. Thank you for pointing out the mistake.</p>
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		<title>Comment on After a String of Political Victories, a Union Has Clout to Spare by themiddleclassguy</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/after-a-string-of-political-victories-a-union-has-clout-to-spare/comment-page-1/#comment-1717</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddleclassguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 06:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1418#comment-1717</guid>
		<description>The SEIU will own Illinois.  They are the most corrupt union in the country.  They never tell you their history.  They SEIU was started by the heirs of Capone- the mob, the boys, organized crime.  Now they are the organized criminals.  They want to rob the taxpayers for the financial failures of the legislature, Blagojecivh and Quinn.

Say no to taxes and fight this pestilence.  SEIU is a plague and a pox on the people of Illinois.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SEIU will own Illinois.  They are the most corrupt union in the country.  They never tell you their history.  They SEIU was started by the heirs of Capone- the mob, the boys, organized crime.  Now they are the organized criminals.  They want to rob the taxpayers for the financial failures of the legislature, Blagojecivh and Quinn.</p>
<p>Say no to taxes and fight this pestilence.  SEIU is a plague and a pox on the people of Illinois.</p>
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		<title>Comment on STREET CORNERS: RON’S BARBER SHOP – A Place Where Open and Honest Discussions Are in Style by Jess</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/street-corners-ron%e2%80%99s-barber-shop-%e2%80%93-a-place-where-open-and-honest-discussions-are-in-style/comment-page-1/#comment-1713</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 02:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1546#comment-1713</guid>
		<description>The link doesn&#039;t match the photos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link doesn&#8217;t match the photos.</p>
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		<title>Comment on After a String of Political Victories, a Union Has Clout to Spare by STREET CORNERS: RON’S BARBER SHOP – A Place Where Open and Honest Discussions Are in Style / Chicago News Cooperative</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/after-a-string-of-political-victories-a-union-has-clout-to-spare/comment-page-1/#comment-1702</link>
		<dc:creator>STREET CORNERS: RON’S BARBER SHOP – A Place Where Open and Honest Discussions Are in Style / Chicago News Cooperative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1418#comment-1702</guid>
		<description>[...] Click here for corresponding article. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Click here for corresponding article. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Prodding Blacks To Think About Green by Prodding Blacks To Think About Green / Chicago News Cooperative</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/environmentalist-prods-fellow-blacks-to-join-in-her-crusade/comment-page-1/#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>Prodding Blacks To Think About Green / Chicago News Cooperative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1528#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>[...] Click here for corresponding article. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Click here for corresponding article. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Now at Northwestern, Ethics 101, Taught by, Well, Go Figure by Maddy E</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/now-at-northwestern-ethics-101-taught-by-well-go-figure/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddy E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1406#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>Mr. Warren, why is this what you choose to write about? This is your second column in a row making light of a very real political corruption problem in Illinois. What are you at, exactly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Warren, why is this what you choose to write about? This is your second column in a row making light of a very real political corruption problem in Illinois. What are you at, exactly?</p>
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		<title>Comment on In Race for U.S. School Grants Is a Fear of Winning by AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/in-race-for-u-s-school-grants-is-a-fear-of-winning/comment-page-1/#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=922#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m quite upset about the federal education reform issue regarding Obama&#039;s &quot;Rise to the Top&quot; program.  Please speak up about it.  The $500 million education reform will NOT even go towards the schools in need right now.  All the money will go towards REFORM of the way we standardized test our kids, which will be the metric used to evaluate our teachers.  Teachers will the get paid according to how their students progress compared to similar demographic students across the state.  Remember the 500 million is only for the REFORM of this system.  They&#039;ll spend it all doing research and testing the new system outside of Chicago city limits...which happens to be the only place as of now that they&#039;ve tested it.  Not the rural areas or central illinois metro areas. Why put $500mil in tax payers money towards something that hasn&#039;t been proven yet?   

We SHOULD be using this 500 million towards underfunded programs and scholarships for these underbudgeted schools and wait until the economy upturns to waste federal tax dollars on reforms that aren&#039;t even tested yet.  I voted for Obama, but this is a gross misuse of federal money.  We&#039;re wasting 500 million in an economic downturn.  Please speak up &amp; write to your local conressman or this money will be wasted and go towards eduation administrators pockets for all their pet projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m quite upset about the federal education reform issue regarding Obama&#8217;s &#8220;Rise to the Top&#8221; program.  Please speak up about it.  The $500 million education reform will NOT even go towards the schools in need right now.  All the money will go towards REFORM of the way we standardized test our kids, which will be the metric used to evaluate our teachers.  Teachers will the get paid according to how their students progress compared to similar demographic students across the state.  Remember the 500 million is only for the REFORM of this system.  They&#8217;ll spend it all doing research and testing the new system outside of Chicago city limits&#8230;which happens to be the only place as of now that they&#8217;ve tested it.  Not the rural areas or central illinois metro areas. Why put $500mil in tax payers money towards something that hasn&#8217;t been proven yet?   </p>
<p>We SHOULD be using this 500 million towards underfunded programs and scholarships for these underbudgeted schools and wait until the economy upturns to waste federal tax dollars on reforms that aren&#8217;t even tested yet.  I voted for Obama, but this is a gross misuse of federal money.  We&#8217;re wasting 500 million in an economic downturn.  Please speak up &amp; write to your local conressman or this money will be wasted and go towards eduation administrators pockets for all their pet projects.</p>
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		<title>Comment on After a String of Political Victories, a Union Has Clout to Spare by Americans for Prosperity</title>
		<link>http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/after-a-string-of-political-victories-a-union-has-clout-to-spare/comment-page-1/#comment-1620</link>
		<dc:creator>Americans for Prosperity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/?p=1418#comment-1620</guid>
		<description>SEIU bought Blagojevich now they&#039;re buying Quinn.  All at the tax payer&#039;s expense.  &#039;&#039;

http://www.americansforprosperity.org/122408-joe-calomino-apears-myfox-chicago-discussing-seius-relationship-blagojevich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEIU bought Blagojevich now they&#8217;re buying Quinn.  All at the tax payer&#8217;s expense.  &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.americansforprosperity.org/122408-joe-calomino-apears-myfox-chicago-discussing-seius-relationship-blagojevich" rel="nofollow">http://www.americansforprosperity.org/122408-joe-calomino-apears-myfox-chicago-discussing-seius-relationship-blagojevich</a></p>
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